brip blap: job jumper tip #3: it’s not all about the money
MB
· 1 year ago
Thanks for this article, it's incredibly timely for me. I'm starting to think about making a jump from my first post-college job into something with more responsibility. I've always labeled myself a "mercenary" (after all, if I didn't care about the money, I'd be in the Peace Corps). But, I've always felt that personal and professional development needed a place in the equation. Thanks for posting about the other issues that affect a job change besides salary. I'll be refering back to this post as I move forward in my search!
bubelah
· 1 year ago
I also did job jumping within the company after my first post-college placement. I had made a lot of connection within the company due to the nature of my first job where I had to work with different divisions and departments on different projects. I was waiting for the opportunity and the opportunity came. I was hired immidiately, the manager knew me well from previous dealings and my current boss even called him up and recommended me. I got more money in the new department AND I was learning a totally different side of business, finance and accounting. I think I would advise for the first time jumpers (after first out-of-college jobs) is to "jump" within the same company, could do it even after a year or two and it would still look good on a resume.
RetiredSyd
· 1 year ago
I don't know, I think it could still be an advantage to job hop. I'm retiring from my job at the end of the month. I've held 2 jobs in my 22 year career, nearly 18 years at my present job.
My replacement went to the same university as I did (although 2 years behind me); as I did, he started in public accounting, but then he went on to a series of many different jobs, landing in my job right now. He will be paid 50% more salary than I make.
I think the job hopping thing worked for him. He's got the same job I had for the 17 years, but he's more expensive since he presumably left each job for more money, while I sat tight and received my 3%-8% raises each year.
I don't know, maybe it wasn't the job hopping, maybe because he's a man . . .
Hunter Nuttall
· 1 year ago
I chuckled a bit in the beginning when you mentioned the $5000 raise, because that's a much bigger number than I was expecting you to use to make your point. I knew someone who prided himself on never jumping ship just to make a little more money...he said he needed at least $2000/year more or it just wasn't worth it to him. Yes, seriously!
This post is some great food for thought. I'll add that many people don't realize that an $80,000/year job with a $20,000 annual bonus pays more than an $81,000/year job. It's not all about the money, but even when it is about the money, it's not all about the salary.
Pamela
· 1 year ago
Great article again! The only thing I might add about making the choice to jump jobs (particularly if it's just for money) is to ask your current company if they can re-evaluate your job. Most companies try to keep internal parity fairly even & if you have been in the same job for 5+ years, you could be being paid below the mid-point of the job even if you were at mid-point when you started.
At my company our compensation dept. re-evaluates most of our jobs every 2 to 4 years & in some areas, especially where a shortage of skills has made the mid-point pay of the job jump appreciably, more often than that. If we find more than a 20% differential in any person doing the same job (given that they have the same skill level & educational level) we raise the lower person to at least mid point.
The point being if you like the company you are in but see that money is passing you by, it is worth asking the question can you have your pay reviewed. Your other option is to go to HR (honest, most of us ARE in the business to help) and discuss your desire to be paid what you see others being paid.
As the head of recruiting I have this conversation with someone at least once a week. Sometimes I know about an upcoming opening that we might consider the person for, or at a minimum I can advise them what additional training, education or experience would boost their chances of a promotion.
Your advice about what a raise will "buy" them realistically is also right on target. You have to ask yourself what a longer commute, less benefits, etc. is worth from a dollar perspective.
Asithi
· 1 year ago
When I picked my first post-college job, I went for the job that offered mentorship and training. I made a pitiful salary when compared to my peers, but I did not have a large overhead out of college. Because of all the training I got from my first job, I am a very marketable employee in my field so I did not have a problem getting a higher salary ($12,000) when I jumped 8 months ago.
One thing that people tend to forget about is the other "extra perks" that mentioned in this post. My co-worker and I both left for the same company. He was making $8000 more than me from our last company. But now he is only making $4000 more than me. I think it is because he forgot to factor in the "extra" stuff. By the end of this year, I have the potential to make $5000 more than him even though we are both in the same position (the training you get from that first 1 or 2 job is that important!).
After I got the job offer, I made a spreadsheet of the perks and put a $ amount to it. For example, if you get 6 hours of vacation per pay period from your last job, but only 3 hours from your new job, then that is $. 3 hrs x $10/hr x 26 pay period / year = $780. Free gym membership = $45/month x 12 months/yr = $540. You run through this with all your perks, then add it to the minimum pay increase to arrive at your "final ship jumping salary." When you are negotiating your new salary that is what you present to your potential new boss to justify your demand when you ask for more than what they are offering.
ben
· 1 year ago
Another issue to consider is 401k eligibility. Some companies make you wait a year before you can contribute to one. If you jump every 2 years you will only be contributing half the time to a retirement account which could make a big difference to your savings.
Curmudgeon
· 1 year ago
You don't seem to consider the health and business strategy of your current employer. I once left a job for a similar title and responsibilities (and yes, a little more money - about $5K, in fact) because it was clear to me that my company was in decline. It took a little over two years, but my office was eventually closed and over 100 people laid off (out of a peak of 200+ when I left). This is a common scenario in high tech, where rapid growth and rapid decline happen all the time.
Patrick
· 1 year ago
Curmudgeon's point is spot on. I am interviewing for a position right now that is basically a lateral move professionally (at least for the current position), but there is a lot of room for growth and the company is doing very well. My current company however, is dying. At least, that is how most of us who work there perceive the situation. Great article.
Pamela
· 1 year ago
Patrick:
If the new company is doing well, you might consider asking to be evaluated on a 6 month basis instead of waiting a year. You say it is a lateral move so you must have experience in the role you are considering. If people ask we will give them a 6 mo evaluation with the idea of giving them a bump up in salary if they are doing above standard in their work. Just a thought!
Curmudgeon
· 1 year ago
Nice thought, Pamela. But tech companies hire you for what you can do for them today. If after six months you're only doing what they hired you for, you will be gone.
Pamela
· 1 year ago
Hey Curmudgeon:
That is why I stated above standard in your work. If you don't keep learning & moving you probably won't make it to the year to get your merit and/or bonus anyhow! And, yes, having worked in CA for 6 years I agree that tech companies are a differing breed than other, less progressive, companies.
fathersez
· 1 year ago
I really like your point (5).
We have to look long term not just in our investments, but also in our career.
Curmudgeon
· 1 year ago
Pamela - CA? I fully understand and sympathize! Good going for lasting six years.
Pamela
· 1 year ago
I don't know - now that I'm back on the East Coast I'm not sure it's any better! Maybe just that I changed industries - retail moves at the speed of light!
Steve (Brip Blap)
· 1 year ago
Great comments - curmudgeon (great handle, by the way) - you make a great point that I missed, which is that you should consider your employers' stability, too. Honestly I have always worked for big, stable companies but it is definitely something people should watch out for, so thanks for pointing it out.
Pamela's right, too, though - try to make an internal move if that option is available. It can't hurt to try to move internally before you jump!
All Comments
I think I would advise for the first time jumpers (after first out-of-college jobs) is to "jump" within the same company, could do it even after a year or two and it would still look good on a resume.
My replacement went to the same university as I did (although 2 years behind me); as I did, he started in public accounting, but then he went on to a series of many different jobs, landing in my job right now. He will be paid 50% more salary than I make.
I think the job hopping thing worked for him. He's got the same job I had for the 17 years, but he's more expensive since he presumably left each job for more money, while I sat tight and received my 3%-8% raises each year.
I don't know, maybe it wasn't the job hopping, maybe because he's a man . . .
This post is some great food for thought. I'll add that many people don't realize that an $80,000/year job with a $20,000 annual bonus pays more than an $81,000/year job. It's not all about the money, but even when it is about the money, it's not all about the salary.
At my company our compensation dept. re-evaluates most of our jobs every 2 to 4 years & in some areas, especially where a shortage of skills has made the mid-point pay of the job jump appreciably, more often than that. If we find more than a 20% differential in any person doing the same job (given that they have the same skill level & educational level) we raise the lower person to at least mid point.
The point being if you like the company you are in but see that money is passing you by, it is worth asking the question can you have your pay reviewed. Your other option is to go to HR (honest, most of us ARE in the business to help) and discuss your desire to be paid what you see others being paid.
As the head of recruiting I have this conversation with someone at least once a week. Sometimes I know about an upcoming opening that we might consider the person for, or at a minimum I can advise them what additional training, education or experience would boost their chances of a promotion.
Your advice about what a raise will "buy" them realistically is also right on target. You have to ask yourself what a longer commute, less benefits, etc. is worth from a dollar perspective.
One thing that people tend to forget about is the other "extra perks" that mentioned in this post. My co-worker and I both left for the same company. He was making $8000 more than me from our last company. But now he is only making $4000 more than me. I think it is because he forgot to factor in the "extra" stuff. By the end of this year, I have the potential to make $5000 more than him even though we are both in the same position (the training you get from that first 1 or 2 job is that important!).
After I got the job offer, I made a spreadsheet of the perks and put a $ amount to it. For example, if you get 6 hours of vacation per pay period from your last job, but only 3 hours from your new job, then that is $. 3 hrs x $10/hr x 26 pay period / year = $780. Free gym membership = $45/month x 12 months/yr = $540. You run through this with all your perks, then add it to the minimum pay increase to arrive at your "final ship jumping salary." When you are negotiating your new salary that is what you present to your potential new boss to justify your demand when you ask for more than what they are offering.
If the new company is doing well, you might consider asking to be evaluated on a 6 month basis instead of waiting a year. You say it is a lateral move so you must have experience in the role you are considering. If people ask we will give them a 6 mo evaluation with the idea of giving them a bump up in salary if they are doing above standard in their work. Just a thought!
That is why I stated above standard in your work. If you don't keep learning & moving you probably won't make it to the year to get your merit and/or bonus anyhow! And, yes, having worked in CA for 6 years I agree that tech companies are a differing breed than other, less progressive, companies.
We have to look long term not just in our investments, but also in our career.
Pamela's right, too, though - try to make an internal move if that option is available. It can't hurt to try to move internally before you jump!