DISQUS

zeromoney · 1 year ago

I couldn't agree more, I'm in my late 20's and held one position for a year with a small start up company that demanded a lot of extra hours, and always on call. I didn't receive any kickback for it at all, or even shares in the company until I quit, at which point they realized they needed me and tried to buy me out. Now I work an 8:00-4:30 job and couldn't be happier, I play golf after work, or get home and enjoy the afternoon sun. Money isn't everything, work to live, not live to work :).

Four Pillars · 1 year ago

Excellent advice Steve.

I used to put in a lot of hours in my job which was more from my own pressure rather than the company. I did get some benefits from it but after a while I realized that I get paid more or less the same for working 9-5.

I also moved to a new division of my company several years ago - it was kind of a "start up" - worked my ass off for a year and then they shut it down. That was my wake-up call that working hard for a big employer is a waste of time.

If you want to work hard at something then either work for yourself or work on something you enjoy.

Mike

Hunter Nuttall · 1 year ago

That's an awful situation to be in...leave and admit that you wasted a chunk of your life, or keep hating it and hope it pays off someday. I've never had it as bad as you described here, but many times I've wondered what I was working for. It's important to know.

Curmudgeon · 1 year ago

Good stuff, Steve. I will say that I lacked the entreprenurial culture and experience in my 20s to make a go of my own business. For the last 15 years, my alternative income stream from my LLC has grossed between $20K-$60K a year, but I've always lacked that "high-wire" attitude that could have provided the final push to make it my primary income source. Part of that, granted, is my spouse's psychological need to have me grounded with an employer, but even without that I'm not sure I could have done it.

The point is that the culture and outlook play a big role in your fitness to build your own business. You can overcome some of your culture, but there is a need to remain grounded in your roots, for better or worse.

I will retire in my 50s from working for The Man, and my consulting LLC will provide me both mental stimulation and additional income to live well and enjoy it. Despite my personal limitations, it's a plan that most of my friends look upon with envy ("A man's got to know his limitations" - Dirty Harry).

Retired Syd · 1 year ago

Wow, that really brought me back (and not in a good way!) I too, did my time at a "Big 8"-- yes, back when there were 8. Not only was it grueling, I found the structure to be demoralizing.

Having said that, in the end, it was totally worth it. It gave me the experience to land my next job, which was a million times better in environment, pay, and self-esteem.

And all of this brought me where I am today, retired at 44. Thank you Arthur Andersen!

deepali · 1 year ago

Glad I work in non-profit!

Steve (Brip Blap) · 1 year ago

@Retired Syd: There are definitely benefits to working in a high-pressure environment like the Big 12/8/6/4/2/1 :). As I mentioned, most employers since then have assumed that I proved myself in the crucible and they don't even worry about my work ethic - they know it was forged in the fires of Hell (how's that for melodrama). I just wish sometimes that when I knew I was done I had cut back. I worked like a fiend up until the day I left, instead of scaling back. What did it get me? Nothing. We used to make fun of a fellow manager who cut out at 5 pm every day - we said he was a slacker, he was always low-rated, he never got good jobs. But you know what? He got paid 90% of what I did and he left at 5 pm instead of 10 pm every day.

I loved my staff in the Big 6. I genuinely enjoyed some of my clients. I detested the partners and like you the structure repelled me. So on balance, I could've done without it, but my career might have been the worse had I not been there. So who knows?

Steve (Brip Blap) · 1 year ago

@Curmudgeon: You hit upon a key point: some people are entrepreneurs, some aren't. I don't think I am. I work well in my twilight zone as a consultant. I didn't like having a "boss" but I'm OK with having a client. At the same time I have yet to feel the desire to strike out on my own and hire staff and start my own consulting firm. It doesn't sound like fun to me. One of these days I may thwap myself in the head and do it, but it's hard to imagine today. But you're completely right - culture and outlook are critical moreso than opportunity. An entrepreneur will out, I think.

Steve (Brip Blap) · 1 year ago

@Hunter: I don't know if I would say "wasted" on some reflection. Maybe "should've scaled back." As I said to Retired Syd, I should've learned that I didn't need to be billable-hours-champ. I could've done without the face time and 8 pm meetings and probably still ended up as a faceless manager in an office making an average manager's wage. It's not like when I left I was a superstar - I was a hard worker and I got a few "attaboys" but nobody said I was the next Jack Welch or anything. I could've tanked a few meetings late in the afternoon and still gotten the work done.

But you've got a point worth repeating: know WHY you are doing what you are doing. Even if you hate it, if it's getting you to a goal you want it's worth it. Suffering "just 'cause" is a bad, bad idea.

fathersez · 1 year ago

I have to agree with Retired Syd. Yes, the work hours are painfully long, and personal life takes a back seat. But the exposure and the networking opportunities are some of the best you can get at that stage of our lives.

I have encouraged my daughter to seek jobs in the Big 12 - 1 (as you have said) though I do have a parent's concern over the long hours.

I'll pass over this post to my girl. I think you have pointed out the downside in a very practical way. And I am sure the comments will keep coming. These will be useful for her to know.

Ron@TheWisdomJournal · 1 year ago

When you calculate your hourly salary, be sure and include the Social Security your employer pays, and the worker's comp and the payroll taxes and the insurance and the retirement benefits. It adds up. When I talk to an employee who wants to go out on their own, I always show them what we pay as his employer. Usually you can add 60% or more of his salary BACK as the benefits he receives. It's quite shocking.

My hours that I work aren't too bad but they vary from week to week. If I'm out of town, they may be very high (70+) or they may be very low (35). It all depends on what I'm working on.

But, like you, I think constantly about the number of hours I put in and wish they were in my own business.

KM · 1 year ago

This post really hits home for me, as I have been working for one of the Big 4 firms for almost two years now. While I have been pretty lucky as far as not having to work very late (the latest I've had to work was 7:30...once), even working until 6-6:30 every night gets old pretty fast. When I first started, I thought I definitely wanted to stick it out until I made Manager, but now I honestly don't know. I have been seriously contemplating starting my own small CPA firm lately, but I'm not sure I have enough experience yet to do so. Either way, I know I do not want to make Partner. I just need to figure out what I really want to spend my time doing. Thanks for the post. It really made me reflect on my current situation, and brought out feelings I have had for the past few months now.

Writer's Coin · 1 year ago

That's a great story Brip. I always feel a little guilty that I'm not working crazy hours and crazy days but this makes me feel a lot better. As long as I'm using my time wisely to pursue other ventures.

Patrick · 1 year ago

Steve, I know exactly what you mean. I just resigned from my position because I was working only for my employer and not doing anything that would benefit me. My position was extremely profitable for my employer. Despite multiple requests, they had no reason to want to move me to another position within our company so I finally left. My new job has a lot more opportunity for growth. Yes, I am still making another company a lot of money and will never reach the level of partner where I will get the golden parachute when I leave, but at least I have great hours and I am building skills I can take with me when I leave.

Early Retirement Extreme · 1 year ago

Academic research is fairly similar although I suspect it pays less (the hours are the same). The pressure is more indirect. It's up or out as well, but not in the sense that one gets fired, but rather than one does not get rehired into yet another temporary position. The competition is due to each professor essentially training 10 potential replacements which then get to fight each other for his seat when he finally retires. In general each new position feels much like another chance to play the lottery from grad student to postdoc to second postdoc to untenured professor and then finally to tenured professor around age 40. The liberal arts may substitute postdoc for adjunct which is a somewhat worse position to be in. Approximately half fall off at each iteration. At the top sits the tenured professors enjoying the fruits of the labor while lamenting the fun they had while they were on the bench. Ah, the irony of it all.